Reasons Not to Become Famous (2020)

(tim.blog)

71 points | by Tomte 2 hours ago

12 comments

  • Aurornis 21 minutes ago
    If you’re not familiar with Tim Ferriss, you should know that there is always more to the story than the narrative he shares. He’s one of the most charismatic and charming writers and podcasters out there and has a strong ability to build trust through his writing. However, he also has a long history of stretching the truth and spinning history in his favor, often by omitting important facts.

    One example: His 4 Hour Work Week book really was on the New York Times Best Seller list for a long time like he brags about in this post, but he has also bragged in other contexts about all of the manipulation and engineering (including mass purchasing books to artificially inflate sales numbers) that goes into gaming the New York Times Best Seller List.

    On the topic of being famous, he’s not typically famous like a celebrity. He built his career around being a self-help guru who will bring you the secrets to success in business, life, relationships, and even cooking. He’s talked about how he selects his writing topics based on how to present solutions for people’s inner desires, like financial freedom or impressing people for dating success. He puts himself at the center of these writings, presenting himself as the conduit for these revelations. He was even early in social media and blogging and experimented with social media engagements and paid events where you get to come hang out with Tim Ferriss and learn his secrets, encouraging his fans to idolize him and his wisdom dispensing abilities.

    So his relationship with his fans isn’t typical fame in the style of a celebrity or actor. He’s more of an early self-help guru who embraced social media and blogging early on. His experience with uncomfortable fan obsessions is therefore probably on the next level, but not exactly typical fame.

    EDIT to add why I know this: Tim Ferriss literally wrote the book on how to abuse remote work. His Four Hour Work Week book encourages readers to talk their boss into working remote then to outsource their work to low paid overseas assistants so they have more time to travel the world. It encourages things like setting up an e-mail auto responder and only responding to your coworkers once a week whine you’re “working remote” and setting up your own side job while traveling the world. If you’ve ever had a remote work job get ruined by people abusing it, chances are good that those people had read a Tim Ferriss book somewhere along the way.

    • vasco 9 minutes ago
      Wasn't he also encouraging people to do medical tests on themselves and take acid to work / regular life for a while?
  • avalys 1 hour ago
    Most of his reasons are related to “you have to deal with crazy people who focus their crazy on you”.

    Tim Ferris is known for somewhat hyperbolic self-help content. He talks about the millions of people who follow him or consume his content regularly.

    I’d suggest that the audience for people who obsessively consume this kind of self-help content is probably self-selected for a high proportion of crazy people.

    So, his experience is probably well outside the norm.

    • nospice 49 minutes ago
      > So, his experience is probably well outside the norm.

      Absolutely not. I've been a minor OSS celebrity for a while and even on that scale, it attracted a good number online stalkers and harassers.

      Basically, if you're ever "newspaper famous", there will be completely unhinged people convinced that you're the one talking to them through their microwave, as well as rational people who make it their life mission to follow your around and "expose" you / put you down, simply because they think they deserved the limelight more than you.

      • chrisweekly 2 minutes ago
        nit: "rational people who make it their life mission to follow your around and "expose" you"

        ^ those are not rational people.

    • showerst 1 hour ago
      Plenty of celebrities that have nothing to do with self-help also attract their share of mentally ill folks, so I'm not sure that he's as far out of the norm as you think.

      A few folks in my social circles are _very_ minor public figures, more in the vein of "occasionally does a talking head segment on CNN" than "wins an Oscar" and even many of them have had to deal with obsessive attention from the unwell, threats, and people assuming they're rich and begging for money.

    • Sam6late 29 minutes ago
      I think the general idea is sound, although I have changed my mind with our current economic system where one needs to fend for his own with no safety net. I mean upon seeing Chris Rock say in an interview saying that he would be willing to kill to become famous, I am reconsidering this issue.I refused once an opportunity to act with some big shot crew saying that I would not tolerate people and the way they deal with well-known, famouse people. I could not imagine how I could deal with the pressure. Now after 60 I am just looking back at missed opportunities but still content that 'I did it my way', and hope my children would have better future.
    • jonny_eh 1 hour ago
      When you make self-help content don’t be surprised when you attract people that need help.
    • kristianc 1 hour ago
      Dealing with crazy people must really cut into his four hour work week.
    • ghaff 1 hour ago
      A lot of people are reasonably well-known in certain circles because of some show, podcast, book, etc. that's become something of a hit often with some calculated controversy. And, as you say, collects something of a following.

      There are also a ton of people who have never especially groomed the mass market though they're pretty well known in their industry.

    • Scubabear68 32 minutes ago
      Nope.

      Becoming well known even in a smallish circle of a few hundred or thousand people will likely immediately lead to stalkers and crazies coming out after you. My theory is they are directly drawn to people who make some sort of splash, for whatever reason, even if it’s local and small.

    • Minor49er 39 minutes ago
      What is the normal experience for a famous person?
    • Teever 1 hour ago
      While it’s possible that being famous for producing self help content does draw more crazies to you it certainly seems like crazies are drawn to famous regardless of what people are famous for.

      Like John Lennon just made music and he got shot and killed for it. Jodie Foster naively signed up for an erotic role in a movie and was stalked for it.

  • firefoxd 5 minutes ago
    I've had my 15 minutes of fame, twice. 30 minutes I guess. Each time I met people that freaked me out.

    In 2018, after the news picked up my story, I met the "true" inventor uber. This guy emailed 100s of documents as proof, newspaper clippings, a bunch of pictures with people circled in red, after all that I said "I'm not entirely sure which part you invented." This man "randomly" bumped into me in a cafe to explain it to me. He had driven hundreds of miles to be there.

    On my second stint a few years later, I went to a Dan Lyons' book signing with my wife. Dan spotted me in the audience and asked me to come up on stage and tell my story to the audience. I was completely unprepared.

    Later a lady accosted me to get my address and phone number so she can send me stuff. She was persistent, so I said I can give her my email so we can communicate further. It didn't sit well with her. A few days later I got an email from her. It was a few thousand words of threats, and I was going to be reported for violating Australia's laws. She had contacted ABC Australia to get my story retracted. I'm in California...

  • techblueberry 1 hour ago
    This is actually one of my all time favorite blog posts, and his concept of the tribe, the village, and the city, is a mental model I often come back to when thinking about the dysfunction in large communities.
    • KellyCriterion 9 minutes ago
      the idea of the tribe/village/city is a model that he stole from the book "Blitzscaling" by Reed Hoffman, I guess?

      Or did Hoffmann steal from Ferriss?

    • rwmj 35 minutes ago
      Ironically I've only ever heard of him because this blog post was previously on HN.
  • nine_k 10 minutes ago
    "You cannot be important and independent at the same time."

    (Think whatever you want about the author; the observation is correct.)

  • lateforwork 52 minutes ago
    He didn't mention one of the biggest reasons for not becoming famous: you'll have less room for mistakes. Take Scott Adams, the Dilbert cartoonist, as an example. He made some racist remarks, a mistake he could’ve recovered from if he wasn’t famous. But because he is, he’s now marked for life, and there's no do-over.
    • Aurornis 34 minutes ago
      I don’t think that’s an accurate summary of his situation. He didn’t just make a single comment that marked him for life. He’s been doubling down for years and seems to be constantly running head-first into drama.

      I didn’t have any opinions on his as a person other than enjoying some of his comics years ago. Then he started showing up in Twitter debates over and over again and there’s no erasing years of bizarre claims and statements from his public opinion. He’s definitely embracing his fame as a platform to push those views, not suffering victimization for one mistake years ago.

      • lateforwork 10 minutes ago
        Yeah, Scott Adams may not be a good example for the point I was trying to make, which is: Being under the public eye—all the time—has to be one of the top reasons to not be famous. The cost of any mistake is much higher when you are famous.

        Another reason is to have normal interactions with other people. If you are famous you can't have normal interactions because you're treated with deference.

    • aleph_minus_one 34 minutes ago
      > Take Scott Adams, the Dilbert cartoonist, as an example. He made some racist remarks, a mistake he could’ve recovered from if he wasn’t famous. But because he is, he’s now marked for life, and there's no do-over.

      From my echo chamber, I would rather claim that by these "politically incorrect" remarks and the controversies following it, he rather got a second wave of fans.

    • riazrizvi 16 minutes ago
      Doomed for life, lol. The point of putting yourself out there is to show the world who you are, so you can connect with the right people. He showed the world a bit more, and better targeted his group of people. I bet there are plenty of people that still connect with him.
    • ljlolel 31 minutes ago
      Dude did not just make one racist comment. I’ve read some of his books and they’re dripping with racism. He’s been consistently racist for decades and still is.
    • thunderfork 20 minutes ago
      I disagree with this framing, but I do think it's a relevant example - being famous seems to change the math on "changing your mind" for some people.

      If Scott Adams had said some racist things at a work dinner, gotten written up, maybe he'd have moved past it... but now being Controversial™ is a core part of his brand, he's doubled down and doubled down...

    • postflopclarity 49 minutes ago
      > he’s now marked for life, and there's no do-over.

      sincere apologies, show of remorse, and substantially + genuinely changing the toxic behaviors goes a long way. there are several celebrities who have done "unforgivable" things and yet been forgiven by the public. the problem is that the kind of person liable to make such remarks is not the kind of person likely to do some introspection to realize they're being a terrible person.

      • lateforwork 48 minutes ago
        Yes, you can do some repair, but the point is, it is much harder if you're famous. Being under the public eye—all the time—has to be one of the top reasons to not be famous.
    • watwut 36 minutes ago
      I mean common. The supposed marked for life people are coming back again and again. Even or especially when the supposed mistake is genuine ideological convinction they are actively propagating.

      Adams mistaken remarks included holocaust denial.

  • KellyCriterion 13 minutes ago
    I always found Zenhabits.net muuuuch more inspiring than Tim Ferriss

    Yes, I even hvae his 4h-work-week-book on the shelf

  • kayo_20211030 10 minutes ago
    What an unbearably tedious fellow he is. What was worse? The boasting, the pathetic pleading for understanding, or the sanctimonious preaching? Too rich, too famous, too hurt; how bad? It's 2025. Did he become less tedious since he wrote this piece?
  • silexia 36 minutes ago
    The four hour workweek was inspirational for me starting my own business in 2009. My business now employs 250 full time people and helps thousands of clients. I remember HN back then was all entrepreneurs like me and everyone was excited about the free market. I feel like now a lot of people in countries with too much government regulations are here and are downers to people who want to build their own thing.

    This post is on the money. Being wealthy has almost all of the benefits of being famous.

    • aleph_minus_one 30 minutes ago
      > I remember HN back then was all entrepreneurs like me and everyone was excited about the free market. I feel like now a lot of people in countries with too much government regulations are here and are downers to people who want to build their own thing.

      Since I am perhaps such a "downer person" who lives in such a country: what should such people then do?

  • theodric 45 minutes ago
    Having been briefly regionally known when I was a kid, I can tell you that it gets fucking annoying having to deal with your adoring public after the novelty of it wears off. Sometimes you're just in line for the toilet and really need to piss.
  • why-o-why 19 minutes ago
    Wow, I thought his first book was insufferable, but I've never read his blog: after reading the first half, that's just who this guy is. The structure he outlines seems so alien to me, and out of touch. People get lucky then think their luck really isn't luck, and then the just swallow their own tail. He's created lifestyle porn for impressionable young men who will never have his luck. I think he's got a good grift. Good for him, he won.

    It's raining downvotes!

    • actionfromafar 16 minutes ago
      It's raining men! And downvotes from them!